If all a man had was the Bible, what is the one phrase in all the Bible that he would find by which to guide his motives? “Love God with all your heart, mind, and strength…this is greatest commandment, there is none greater.”

Is loving God enjoyable? Sure. But Paul tells us to “pursue love” in 1 Corinthians 14:1, not “pursue pleasure.” Likewise, Paul says the greatest fruit of the spirit is love, not joy.

Since God tells us explicitly to “pursue love” in 1 Corinthians 14:1, 1 Timothy 6:11, and 2 Timothy 2:22 and that we must pursue love for God as our greatest commandment, I find the philosophy of Christian hedonism distracting. Like the way a stander-by jumping up and down behind a reporter is distracting–he’s there, grabbing attention, but the real story is with the reporter.

Chris, you indicated that no-one seriously questions the expression, “God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.” I would recommend reading two articles on thefaithfulword.org Christian Hedonism page, “God is most glorified when?” and “Satisfied in the Lord.”

Keep blogging.

So are there times where duty and responsibility will have to suffice? Absolutely. There are countless times in my life where i have no desire to do the things I ought to. All Christian Hedonism suggests is that where God may be glorified in duty, He is also more glorified in joyful obedience. If I don’t feel like worshipping, yet I still worship, I believe God is pleased and therefore glorified. But, If I treat joy as my duty and worship out of pleasure and happiness, then i believe He is more glorified. I agree it is idealism, but the Bible is idealistic in order to paint a more accurate picture of God. We will inevitably fail at finding joy and pleasure in some of the things we are called to do as believers, but nonetheless, we should strive for it and let grace pick us up when we falter.

Are there times where the more pleasurable thing is not the right thing? it depends on your definition of pleasure. Satan masks everything in “faux pleasure” in order to lead us away from obedience. Satan knows as well as we do that God designed us to want to be happy. So if something leads us away from our duty and responsibiltiy as Christ-followers, it is not truly pleasurable…only an illusion. God will always be the source for pleasure. Satan can imitate it all he wants, but it will never satisfy. We will always find more pleasure in abiding with God.

Toby, this touches on what you were saying. You take issue with the idea that we should seek after God for the purpose of pleasure. So do I. But Christian Hedonism doesn’t sumbit this line of thinking. It simply recognizes the fact that God is the source for true pleasure, therefore we should not reject pleasure for the sake of seeking God. I was taught in church my whole life that pleasure=flesh and obedience=spirit. What Christian Hedonism suggests is that my pleasure and my striving for God are not at odds. They are the same. If pleasure leads me away from God, then it is not true pleasure. If it leads me to God, it is right and God is glorified.

I do not seek God in order to recieve pleasure, and I suspect Piper doesn’t either. We seek God for the reason you give: because He is God. So, yes, as I said earlier, there will be times where we will worship with less joy, even frustration and sadness at times (we know David did in his Psalms), and God will be glorified. But we should not deny the fact that pleasure is something to be realized and that God is more glorified in a joyful heart than an obedient heart, stripped of emotion. I would even submit that God is more glorified in negative emotions than no emotions at all. God designed us with emotions and he designed us to seek happiness. He just wants us to realize that happiness is found in Him. We shouldn’t shy away from pleasure, because it is God who gives us pleasure. I would hope that I would never deny myself the emotion of happiness when I serve God. There may be times where it is difficult for me to find joy in obedience, but it is there nonetheless, and God will be the most glorified when I find it.

I had never heard the term “Christian Hedonism” prior to your post. I’ve never read Piper. After reading your post and the banter in the comments i did some research on the topic. I think in some respects you are correct that my biggest issue is with the idea of hedonism, the seeking after pleasure. One can redefine the aspects of hedonism however one wants, but it will always be attached to the baggage of its definition, seeking pleasure.

The biggest issue I have with the concept is not God as the source of joy and happiness, or getting fullness of life and joy from our relationship with God. I don’t even have a problem with the notion that God is glorified in our joy. The problem I have is that “Christian Hedonism” suggests that our pleasure is the reason to turn to God. All props to Blaise Paschal for an accurate anthropological statement concerning mans selfcenteredness, but isn’t the whole point of scripture that its not about me, especially in the New Testament though I’d argue you find it in the OT as well. The two greatest commandments are Love God…love others; pick your take up the cross verse, or your verse concerning suffering for your faith. The over arching notion of the Bible concerning the worship of God in my opinion is not duty, nor is it love. It is worthiness. We worship God because God is worthy of our praise; we love God because he has first loved us and is therefore worthy of our love; we don’t worship other gods because they are false and unworthy of our worship. Does this give us pleasure? Yes. Does this mean sometimes we worship out of duty rather than love? Yes, because God’s worthiness does not change. In the end EVERY KNEE will bow…

I think the problem with “CH” is not the notion of joy coming from God. I certainly don’t think obedience is the best choice (eventhough the OT and the Gospel of John suggest obedience=love), the problem for me is seeking after God FOR THE PURPOSE OF pleasure. As I said earlier, one can try to redefine hedonism, but it is what it is.

As for the history of it…

Even though you can see these things in Scripture, and you can see hints of it in other theologians, the term, “Christian Hedonism,” begins with Piper, correct? And it is more central and explicit in his writing than in others?

It’s fine to say that a dinner with your wife out of pleasure, rather than duty or commitment, is more romantic and therefore more appreciated by her. I understand that. But aren’t there also times when the more pleasurable thing is not the right thing? Aren’t there times in life when duty and responsibility have to suffice? Is taking up a cross really a pleasure? It would have been more pleasurable for Paul (or any of us) to die and be with Christ, but it was necessary for him to live and work.

The idea of serving or worshipping out of pleasure/satisfaction instead of duty/responsibility is fine, but (in my opinion) incomplete, and maybe a little dishonest about reality.